Dutch fireworks ad featuring islamic terrorist group slammed for being anti-muslim

 
 

Dutch fireworks ad featuring islamic terrorist group slammed for being anti-muslim

The Dutch government's consumer safety institute firework safety message campaign featuring a spoof Islamist terrorist group has been critisized for being insensitive and depicting a negative stereotype of the muslim community reports The Guardian.

In the video above a man wraps the fireworks around him as if it were a suicide belt, which I swear to Pickard I've seen a Dutch guy do every year on New Years eve at Neuiwemarkt - except that crazy dude is only wearing boots, boxers and a Santa hat with it. He sets them off while wearing them and somehow survived the four New Years Eve's I saw him do it. I have no idea if he's killed himself yet, mind you - nobody stays that lucky for long.

"What is the campaign hoping to achieve by depicting a negative stereotype of the Muslim community in a fireworks advert?" said Saad Saraf, the chief executive of multicultural marketing specialists Media Reach Advertising.

Saraf, an Iraqi, was particularly offended by images in one ad that show one person strap fireworks around him in a style similar to a suicide belt, which later explodes.

"Are the producers aware that the actors in the advert are speaking in an Iraqi accent; with the current state of affairs in Iraq and the loss of lives as a result of suicide bombing, I question, what were the creatives thinking?," said Saraf.

I don't have anything to add since I'm busy trying to unwrap myself from the strings I got caught in while wrapping gifts. Merry Xmas - today it is Jul in Sweden and presents will opened in T minus 3 hours in this household. Kids are climbing the walls at this point.

Adland: 

Comments

I would love to comment on this and say what I really think, but I'm going to respectfully observe the Christmas cease fire, and hold my tongue.

Merry Christmas, Glædelig Jul, God Jul, Joyeux Noel, and Feliz Navidad to all.   

I found your Adland site via a poster at http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51183 

God bless the Dutch!  Great commercial!  You know you hit paydirt when the religious, who have ZERO sense of humor, complain.

 We who are Christian are long used to anti-Jesus and anti-Christian jokes, and frankly some of them are quite good.  I still remember the one where Satan and Jesus are in a computer-typing contest and at the last minute both computers go down.  But Jesus won, because "Jesus saves" (his stuff to hard disk).

Again, Merry Christmas to the Nederlands!  Thank you!

I've started a countdown clock to the end of the Christmas cease-fire in your time-zone. ;)

"Happiness is overrated. Take a placebo; it might make you feel better."

Well, as soon as that clock hits zero and I'm sober again (according to Ost), I'll offer up my opinion of these spots.  Thanks for the thought, and again, Happy Holidays.  :-)

Nice sentiment on Christmas Eve and good to know that you speak for all Christians.  I'm sure the Prince of Peace appreciates it.  Ugh.

I enjoyed both videos.  They're funny and get the point across that you should exercise care around fireworks.

If people are worried about the terrorists being offended and about protecting their rights maybe the terrorists should respect other peoples' right to not be blown up in the first place.  As far as I am concerned anything that mocks terrorists is being too generous.  This whole political correct BS is really starting to get on my nerves when I have to watch out for the feelings of people who are trying to kill me.

And as for people who say that mocking terrorists is offensive to Muslims maybe they should do their homework and actually read the Qur'an or something.  Islam strictly forbids what the terrorists are doing and for that reason I don't consider the terrorists Muslims.  They're just power hungry evil people.

I saw a crater where buildings used to be.  I saw a wall with 3000 names on it.  If these politically correct nut jobs can't understand what the terrorists are all about and tell me not to offend them then as far as I am concerned they are just as bad as the terrorists themselves and they are aiding the terrorists in disrupting the lives of civilized peaceful people everywhere.

Sorry if I'm coming of as a bit harsh but sometimes when dealing with animals one can't help but have the animal within themself show through a little bit.

smizzly_bob wrote: Sorry if I'm coming of as a bit harsh but sometimes when dealing with animals one can't help but have the animal within themself show through a little bit.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

- Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146
German philosopher (1844 - 1900)

"Happiness is overrated."

A merry, happy, etc., Winter Solstice, Christmas, Saturnalia, Yule, the Long Night, etc. to everyone.

"Happiness is overrated. "

For once Nietzsche and I see eye-to-eye.  Hey if that can happen then maybe there is a hope for peace in the Middle East.

I don't think you and Nietzsche see eye to eye at all.  Quite the opposite. You don't seem to have taken his admonition to heart. Anyone familiar with my comments here knows that I don't shy away from an argument, or strong opinions, but there's no cowardice or political correctness to compassion and discretion. That, however, is an argument for another day, not Christmas Day.  

 

I like the music.

Smizzly_bob has a valid points. Equating Islamic terrorists with all God loving Muslims (peace be with you) is a bit like equating all Christians with Fred Phelps. Nobody seriously does this, do they?

Dang, I was about to suggest doing a Fred Phelps ad..."God hates fags & people who don't practice firework safety!"

On a somewhat related note, didn't someone make an ad a while ago that featured Hitler in a semi-positive light? I think it was something to the extent of using their product would turn him into a fun guy.

Well, there was that NZ pizza ad that featured a saluting Hitler, along with a quote from the madman.

"It is possible to make people believe that heaven is hell." 

The agency guy still didn't seem to get it after all the controversy: 

"We thought that people would be able to see a funny side to a guy doing a 'sieg heil' salute with a piece of pizza in his hand," Kirk MacGibbon of the Auckland-based Cinderella advertising agency said. " 

The music is actually quite catchy.

Do you have a link to this?

I would have included a link in my original comment, but my "link" function doesn't work when I leave comments here.  Maybe I use the wrong browser?  Who knows.  

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,501792,00.html 

I have no idea what they were trying to do with that quote. It's like they said "hey, let's use Hitler!", & that's about as far as the planning went.

If someone had come up with this in the 80s, I'd just have thought they were high, but it's hard to believe that anyone would think that was a good concept in 2007.  Not that people don't get high in 2007, but I doubt they're sitting around an agency conference room passing a mirror with a pile of blow on it.

I can't figure out the link thing.  Maybe we're just too old and not computer savvy enough.  ;-)

1 more funny ad that was actually run for a while on the German TV:

Suicide bomber and German engineering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwmLam1gJ6k

-------------

 smizzly_bob, I have read the koran a few times and many sahih ahadith and the first biography of mohamed and the Ibn Kathir tafseers, let me tell you that unfortunately, you are wrong.

 The terrorists ARE the true Muslims, they are following allah's orders in the koran and are following mohamed's example, his sunnah.

allah asks the Muslims in the koran to kill the infidels in dozens of verses, he allows the Muslim to beat his wives and to rape Non-muslim women kidnapped during war, he allows the Muslims to marry and have sex with children and there is more horror there.

mohamed have done all that and more horrible things! And as he is THE model for all mankind, all time and all places, i.e. Muslims are supposed to do like him! ben laden IS following mohamed's example but fortunately not all Muslims are, although the more religious the more potential they have to be like mohamed, scary.

 It is why mocking terrorists IS offensive to Muslims who know their scriptures. Because mocking terrorists IS mocking mohamed AND mocking allah's orders. This would be blasphemy and you may be killed in islam for that!

 So YOU may not consider the terrorists Muslims, but tell me PLEASE why the imams, sheiks and mullah never made any fatwas against terrorists? But they have made hundreds against critics of islam, secular Muslims and Ex-muslims? It's because terrorists ARE true Muslims. 

 ----------------

Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!

islam orders woman to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them

To be completely honest I don't believe you.  While I can't be certain I have encountered several people who, like yourself, claim to be knowledgable in many areas but know absolutely nothing regarding those topics.  A cursoury glance at Amazon.com will reveal hundreds if not thousands of people who write scathing reviews of books and in their reviews is damning evidence that they never read those books.

I feel as if what I am trying to say is futile.  I have come across people who have read verses of the Bible where Jesus says he has come not to bring peace but to bring the sword and use that as justification for saying Christianity is all about violence and that Jesus advocates killing people.  Quite frankly they are looking for excuses to bad mouth religions they oppose instead of looking for verses to use as ammunition for hate.

Bin Laden and the Mullahs are just assholes.  I don't care if the Pope does something bad that doesn't mean the Pope is the high and mighty authority of Christianity just as the Mullahs are not the high and mighty authority of Islam.  There are assholes in every religion and people have used every religion as an excuse to kill and conquer.  That doesn't mean a thing!

There are also literalists who will look only at the surface of a holy book and take it as true, assuming ancient people didn't have intelligence or metaphore or any reason to keep deeper meaning away from people who would use it for evil.  If you read the Bible it will say God created the earth in six days.  If you ask a Kabbalist (even from hundreds of years ago, before modern astronomy) they'll tell you that what the bible calls a day for God is closer to two billion years our time. 

You're going to have to do a whole lot better than throw out wild, unsubstantiated claims to be convincing to anyone who hasn't made up their mind already.  Provide me with verses, and lots of them, and be ready to have your illusions shattered when I tell you what they really mean.  Don't cherry pick.  Look at context.  Look at whole passages and the big picture surrounding them.  Cherry picking can make anyone sound like a monster.  It's only when you see the whole picture that you'll get the truth.

Ok, now that the Christmas cease fire has ended, I'll comment. I suppose I found the spots mildly amusing, but totally unnecessary. It's hard to believe that they couldn't find an equally effective way of showing that fireworks can be dangerous explosives. Additionally, I don't think the concept was executed very well. The acting and direction are horrible, and the production is even worse.

As to the political aspects, I have no desire to be overly PC, but there's a time and place for everything, and I don't advocate taking every possible opportunity to take a swipe at Islam and equate Muslims with terrorists no matter what the Koran says. I don't believe that it serves any good to throw fuel on the fire of extremism.

Other than those directly effected by the events of 9.11, those who were in the buildings or on the planes or in the Pentagon, or those who lost friends or loved ones in the attacks, or the responders who worked at the attack sites, I think I was personally effected in a greater way than 99% of the people in the world. Up until April of 2005, I lived in NYC on the 25th floor of One West Street, which is right across the street from Battery Park, a mere two minute walk from the WTC. On the morning of the attacks, I could hear the engines of the second jet as it roared overhead two seconds before it struck the South Tower. I was displaced from my home for months, and when I could finally return, I had to explain to my children why we lived in an armed camp and why there were scores of soldiers on the streets with automatic weapons. I had to breath in the dust of the pulverized towers for months and maybe years. I had to walk by the WTC site every day, and see the aftermath of the attacks as a daily reminder of inhumanity. Life on the Southern tip of Manhattan became more like life in Beirut than NYC. So if Smizzly_bob saw a crater and a wall with 3000 names on it, I lived it every day of my life for years and years.

And I don't think that I'm a "politically correct nut job" because I don't believe that it serves any purpose to use such a concept to convince people to exert caution when using fireworks. It's just not necessary. They could have done an ad showing the blown off limbs of the thousands of people who have had accidents with fireworks and caused more controversy with that. People would have complained that an ad like that was going too far. But today, in 2007, when Islam is so out of step with the rest of the world, it's more in vogue to take a swipe at Muslims. It's easy to understand why in the west, we're so fed up with Jihad and what we see as the extreme lunacy of Islam. When people are imprisoned because of a Teddy Bear's name, we've had enough. When courts threaten rape victims and make them the suspects, we've had enough. When children are taught to strap bombs to their bodies to blow up other children, we find it abhorrent, and well we should. But beyond reactionary speech, I'd like to know how I'm "just as bad as the terrorists themselves," and how I'm "aiding the terrorists in disrupting the lives of civilized peaceful people everywhere" by advocating discretion. In my humble opinion, there's a time and place to confront Muslim extremists and out them for the crazed lunatics they are. I just don't think the fireworks ads were the proper venue for such a thing. But that's just my opinion, and obviously lots of people think it's just grand.

And I'm just interested in knowing how you've become the Adland arbiter of truth.

And can you quote me chapter and verse, and tell me which Kabbalist said that a biblical day is closer to two billion (modern) years. I've read a lot of works from early Kabbalists and I don't recall ever having read that.

I obviously don't agree with your point of view on this subject, but I admire your passion.

Do you disagree with my saying that making fun of terrorists is okay or that Islam doesn't advocate slaughtering innocent people by suicide bombers?

I think that oversimplifies things, but no, I don't disagree with you about Islam, although I should say that I've never read the Koran, so I don't know what it says. I only know what I've read, both from learned scholars, and from those who just think they know what it says. I don't personally believe that the Koran tells its followers to become suicide bombers and go kill innocent people.

As for making fun of terrorists, I support your and everyone's right to the free expression of ideas. That doesn't mean that I think it's OK in every situation, and I've expressed my opinion about the fireworks spots. Mocking terrorists may indeed be a good way of illustrating the absolute crazy lunacy of their actions. I just didn't think that this instance was the best time and place for it. I think that if your actions just serve to inflame things further, and cause even greater action on the part of the nuts, then you're defeating your own purpose.

I would not advocate mocking terrorists just for something to do.  The context is important.  If there is a message to get across that would be best served by joking around at the expense of terrorists, or whomever, then certainly that leaves the possibility to do so open if one chooses.  However if someone just wants to be cruel then no, I don't advocate that at all.

(having just now read your opinion on the video), I would have to agree with you on the production quality and the poor acting.  I also agree that there may very well have been a better, more effective way to get the message of safety across without dressing up some guys in turbins.

I know nothing about the company that produced the videos and whether or not they do this kind of thing all the time, and if they do they really need to expand their horizons and learn some new tricks.  I just don't know.

Also, I was not referring to you, or anyone else on this message board, when I was talking about politically correct nut jobs or people aiding the terrorists through their speech and actions.  I was thinking of other people whom I have encountered in my daily life, and others who I have read about in the news paper who make it their crusade to denegrate everything American and praise villains.  In the future I will try to be more specific in my rants as to clarify who I am getting irked at. 

And I should add that I do share your anger and indignance with many in the Muslim world who have "terrorized" the rest of the world into fearing for their lives if they speak out, mock or satirize Jihad or suicide bombers. If they want to impose a gag order on themselves, so be it, but the rest of us are free to speak our mind. That being said, I still think one needs to pick and choose their battles.

I'm glad you decided to add your two cents.  Very articulate and well written.  I don't agree with you on everything, but on most things I do.  Personally I feel that Islam and Muslims have a certain sense of entitlement, and that they bring on many of their own problems by trying to act as if they've been put upon and abused by the rest of the world. Surely you must be aware of the problems in Malmö from when you were living there.  

I do agree, however, that mocking them in ads like these is just adding to the problem, and it was probably unnecessary.

(I should add as a disclaimer that Tod and I have been friends for many years and used to work together) 

To the site administrator:

I am so sorry: I was trying to reply to Smizzly_Bob and I submit many times until I came to notice the info box saying that the software thought my post may contain spam. Please excuse me for the number of posts.

So no, no spam just a few links from the Muslim Student Association of the University of Southern California, because Smizzly_Bob asked for some verses.

 I hope you will allow my post, thank you anyway.

 Hey nobody liked the ad from BMW I posted? I found it funny... And please, to laugh about terrorism or terrorists is not cruel, Smizzly, they are the ones who are cruel, to do what they did and to do it for 72 virgins.

The amount of links that you added triggered the spam-filter. I deleted the doubles.

Free spech.Those two words say alot.  With that being said... I actually thought the videos were very funny.  As for talk of bad acting, poor cinematography, lack of genuine en oui... hey, it's a commercial!  I can't recall the last commercial that had an award winning performance (and I've actually been in several commercials).  Most are simply about the message, and conveying it in a memorable way over 30-60 seconds depending on what part of the world you live.  In regards to that, the commercial was on message and on target.  As for people who get mad at it being offensive, well, each to their own.  But pretty much every demographic has been offended by some commercial somewhere.  I do agree with smizzly(sp?) in that the average "viewer" of commercials may misconstrue the message with the wrong religion (and has a difficult enough time discerning US pro wrestling from being real or fake, much less being able to sort propaganda from facts derived from self-observed critical thought).  A religion is what you, the observer of that religion, want it to be.  Some people want one flavor (decent christians, muslims, jews, buddhists, jains, shintoists, etc. who don't pervert it for their own reasons) and some want another flavor (extremist christians, muslims, jews, buddhists, jains, shintoists, etc. who will launch zealot inquisitions and crusades, suicide bomb innocents the name of jihad, murder and torture children, practice genocide and general oppression, etc.) all in the name of crossing a particular finish line that only exists in their mind.  And some people just like to "flame" in post after post (Anna Doe) and show exactly how much they are prejudiced against a particular religion(s). Wow, the main commercial wasn't enough to satiate your obviously hateful appetite, was it? Your cries for someone to respond to your -very old- added VW link were deafening... "someone see what I added, someone talk to me, I'm cool, please?!".  <insert crickets here>.  Good observation on the part of tod, pointing out that things should intend to touch upon their original purpose, whether that be message or entertainment, and should not be used to inflame an already bad situation.  Even as PC as the world is becoming, deep down, we are all still human beings and no one wants to be further insulted/enraged when they are truly hurt to the core, much less kicked while they are down.  Leave the flaming, oops – sorry Anna Doe, leave the “inflaming” to Phelps and his funeral-busting followers.  Talk about a free speech message totally missing target. In any case, Happy Holidays, God Jul, Feliz Navidad Merry Christmas, Joyeux Noel, Happy Hanukah, Blessed Eid, Happy New Year, Peace on Earth, The Best Noel to all.  See, I know good people who embody the best of all of these celebrations and their respective religions, so I can say them all and not spontaneously combust.  Other people however, should emphasize caution... or perhaps a flame retardant jacket...?  Care to send another link?....

I think you make some excellent observations, but I take issue with your characterization of commercials. This website is proof positive of the art in advertising. The archives here are filled with the work of incredibly talented ad people and filmmakers, and the ad world has been populated with incredible artists who thankfully don't view their work with the credo "hey, it's a commercial."

I think you're correct in saying that commercials are about the message, but the manner in which that message is delivered is everything. There are examples of fantastic commercials which don't work because the product gets lost in the story. I think this site points out that in the famous Alka Seltzer Spicy Meatball spot, some people couldn't identify the product.

My point with these Fireworks spots was that the poor filmmaking and acting detracted from their effectiveness for me, and made it difficult for me to take them seriously. But perhaps that was the intent. Maybe the creatives and the filmmakers used that as part of the satire. I don't know.

But to say "hey, it's just a commercial," is pretty shortsighted in my view. As a filmmaker who went on to make some pretty good films (I know, I'm humble) I can say that I got my start in commercial production, and it was the best film education ever. I'd pick it over any film school, any day of the week. And I often wish I had never left advertising.

Myth correction.

The Lee and Dan spec work advert for VW with the suicide bomber (posted here January 18th, 2005 in the archive) never ran on any TV as an advert and for a long time VW threatened to sue its creators - it was not commissioned work. Lee and Dan are UK citizens, the ad was shot in the UK, the ad was produced in the UK. The only possible German connection here is that the ad was debated on a German news show where some poor dude from VW had to sit in a hot seat and explain that they had nothing to do with it.

Saraf, an Iraqi, was particularly offended by images in one ad that show one person strap fireworks around him in a style similar to a suicide belt, which later explodes.

Penn Jillette: "We're all offended, all the time, and we don't have a fucking right not to be offended! A free country is a marketplace of ideas...."

"Happiness is overrated."

You sure you wanna wrastle'?  But seriously, I can appreciate your defense from the directorial side of the lens.  However, having been on both sides of the lens (and I'm not saying that you haven't), commercials are all about 1 thing - the message and the intended response/reaction to that message (ok... 2 things).  The "talented ad people and filmmakers, ...incredible artists" are simply the (very necessary) vehicle to reach those two things. I love it and that’s how I makes mah livin’!  I stand by what I said that “I can't recall the last commercial that had an award winning performance”, with the operative words in that sentence being “I”, “recall”, and “performance”.  That’s not to say that there are none, and that’s also not to say that I was fishing for someone to prove me wrong, save the 30 second damsel-spots-in-distress commercial industry, and come to their defense.  In fact, I can recall many an award winning commercial that had zero talent whatsoever, and was purely the convergence of excellent direction, writing, production, and vision coming together as no one could have hoped.  Many of the more memorable are both of the domestic and the international variety.                                I believe in the art in “X”, not just advertising.  And obviously I have witnessed/participated (I hope) in commingling art with commercials.  However, I am also honest enough to admit that the art, the talent, the direction – evaporate -, if they do not live up to the two things that I have said above that commercials are about.  Don’t believe me?  Take the most prized commercial work, or better yet, your personal most prized commercial work, and apply it to the product of/place it before a client who knows the truth in the above two commercially important issues.  If those two issues are not present, and if your work and the message do not mesh, the client will use that work for toilet paper (this is not to say that your work or that of any other is toilet paper worthy, I am just showing the client’s reaction to not receiving what they expected, as well as their sole loyalty to the stated issues at hand).                           For you see, the two things that commercials are about, are dictated solely by the client.  Remove the client and you still can have art or pure creativity, uncut.  But you can no longer call it a commercial.  I think that the better adfirms know/feel both the ad side as well as the client side; a truly difficult thing to do since most adfirms think they know, cobble something(s) together, while moving on to the next client.  But they are only swinging at bat.  Adfirms that can really align themselves with their clients needs hit homeruns.  The firms that don’t, only contribute surplus material to the already booming industry of commercial-omission/deletion technologies (TiVo, DVR, etc.).  I know you “likes” to argue, but that was not what this was about.  I am just expressing my opinion, and I once again welcome yours.

I don't agree with you, and I don't find your arguments valid in the least. And I really don't need a lesson in making commercials or dealing with clients. But I don't have any desire to continue this. Because I don't really "likes to argue."

It's obvious that you believe strongly in what you're saying, and it's irrelevant to me how you make your living. I could say that I've been doing this for over 30 years, but that doesn't make my opinion any more valid than yours. I know people who've been in film or advertising for far longer than me, and I don't respect their opinions either.

So I think the best thing is for us to just agree to disagree, and we'll both live to fight about something else another day.

Happy New Year

(Hi administrator, you didn't post the post that suffered the spam filter, so here it is)

*********

It's funny and sad that you believe those who say islam is the religion of peace or say that the terrorists are not following islam, but you don't believe me.

An objective person would not believe both!

How do you know that I don't know nothing regarding those topics? I have been studying the koran, ahadith and sunnah for more than 2 years, I don't claim to know all, but I know enough to claim what I did.

Your mistake is to believe I am accusing the terrorists or the Muslims of something. I am not: I am accusing islam! Terrorists and Muslims ARE victims of islam, like us.

Your other mistake is to put the criminals of other religions in the same bag that the terrorists: it is not the same. While some Christians may do bad deeds for example in the name of Christianity, they are not following the teachings of Jesus. If Staline killed millions, it is not because of atheism, there is no holy book of atheism that asked him to do this.

 But with islam it is different. allah asked the Muslims to kill the infidels WHEREVER the Muslims find them AND UNTIL there is no religion but for allah. And mohamed who is THE model for all mankind, all time and all places, killed and ordered the mass-killing of Non-muslims. So when Muslims are killing us, they are following their scriptures.

 Smiting necks and cuting finger tips of unbelievers:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/008.qmt.html#008.012
raping women taken in wars, called in islam right hand possessions:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.003
beating the wife is allowed (Please remember that the parentheses were added by the translators to lessen the non-sense and violence.)
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.034     

The shortest argument to tell you islam allows pedophily is this:
1. Quran 65:4 says that the IDDAT (waiting period to be sure there is no pregnancy before remarying) for pre-pubescent girls is 3 months
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/065.qmt.html#065.004
2. Quran 33:49 says that if you have not had sex with your wife then there is no iddat
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html#033.049
Therefore, in order for a 3 month Iddat to be observed for pre-pubescent wives, you have to have had sex with her.

I have more if somebody asks, but please come visit faithfreedom.ORG  a site created by Ex-muslims to tell the truth about islam and mohamed.

 I don't only judge from reading the koran, but from the tafseers who had explained the koran to Muslims Arabic speakers (or not) since the beginning of islam. So not only it is obvious that the koran is fascist, misogyn and violent, but it was accepted as such since the beginning, as it is words of allah, it was never changed, moderated, modernized and so on...

*******

I will try to answer other people if needed, when I will have the time.

Vaccinate yourself against islam: read the koran!

islam orders woman to hide themselves so rapists won't be tempted to harass them, it is as stupid as to ask colored people to hide themselves so racists won't be tempted to harass them

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